Final answer?

[mskied]

There are two primary Truths: Man knows, and Man does not know. These are the conditions that set the terms for the rest of the process. Man must choose to believe that they know, even though this is ignorant, because Man is expected to get up and move, and Man has needs that must be met. In Mans necessary application of knowing, some Man will believe that they are absolutely correct, and can do anything and its justified. This is the extreme end of the ignorant faith. It is True that Man must be satisfied, for they do have the right to experience themselves and this world and all its curiosities and delights, but an enlightened Man will see that they rely on others for their survival. This leads us to considering how to do this together, and the absolute measure of this is Love. When I give and get Love, we are all happy, but when I stand against your desire or need, I am Evil. Therefore the best Good is to aid Man in aiding Man, but we cannot just submit to any desire, because all action needs to satisfy the whole, and so we will resist and withhold our Love, causing distress and anger and retaliation and confusion. This is when Wisdom is necessary, and Wisdom needs to be presented with kindness, for anger is offensive to everyone. That is the state of Man.

[Belteshazzar]

A lot choose to believe they know. Some just know.

Though it begs the questions, "what is knowing?" To which I say there are probably varying depths.

But at the end of the day, you just gotta try your best and I think that's all God requires.

[mskied]

And that is why Chaos prevails.

[Belteshazzar]

Yeah. Chaos is ever constant. I suppose God is order in the chaos, or the organizer or persuader of it. Ultimate Chaos magician!

[mskied]

My honest opinion of Thelema is that I side with the idea that I deserve to enjoy my desires. The Buddhist idea is that since you cannot get what you desire, you should train yourself to go without. The Christian idea is that in the pursuit of your wanting, you will do unfair, cruel, or Evil deeds. These are answers to the problem, but not acceptable ones. You were born with a stomach, and with genitalia that demand satisfaction. Abstaining from them is unnatural. However, the previous incarnations of Truth do hold some measure that should be considered as we pursue our wanting. We really should consider the basic human level of worth of each individual, and how we interact with them and their desires- this is something that I dont see in Thelema or the the Book of the Law. I am not against Man getting their satisfaction if it is just and fair.

[Belteshazzar]

I believe it was Paul that said "bridle your passions." Not extinguish them. Christianity isn't so much about self-denial of want as it is about putting things in their right place - and/or passing the test of mortality. We will be asked to do things, at times, simply to see if we will do them. It's a loyalty and discipline test. My personal opinion is that in eternity, a lot of the moral restrictions we have in mortality will no longer apply.

[mskied]

Wisdom teaches. Wisdom informs. Wisdom illustrates. Wisdom understands. Wisdom is something to give away, and not to horde. The Wise know to care, for in ignoring you create an enemy, and a threat to your security. Wisdom seduces with a vision of what is Good.

[mskied]

When you become a predator of your own kind, you are no longer of that kind.

[mskied]

The Truth is that you should know Love, and know what to do for it. Always honor Love.

[mskied]

There is the contest of Man vs Man, and men vs women, but the real contest is parent vs child.

[mskied]

Since we cannot say what is after life, we have to assume that it is something that is reflected in life. We do not know what a God will do with our souls, but we have to assume that we prove what we would like it to be with our actions. That means that you have to decide what you measure this experience with. When you declare what your Will is, you will fall in line with what that will cause you to bring to this world, and it will reflect onto you in another life, presuming there is one. That is the only logical reasoning. We cannot say if we will be at the mercy of our actions, or if we will be allowed to do what we thought was Good for eternity. Depending on what you believe life is meant to be, and how you view other life (supposedly), you will be treated the way you treated life, your own and others. That is logical. This is why most myth says that if there is a judge, you will have to answer for what you have done.

[mskied]

Some Wisdom is not Wisdom, like dont defend yourself- that is submitting to ignorance; yours and theirs.

There comes a time when a Man must stop measuring things based on Love and start honoring the environment we live in, which requires duty to survive.

Jesus says not to hit because you will offend Love, but thats not True- Love will hit- its Wisdom that doesnt hit.

The perfect ideal is not just duty to myself, or to my family or country; but to all living things.

[mskied]

Chaos is defeated by Wisdom, and Wisdom is based on what is Good, and the virtues of Love are Good, and in Goodness there is Truth, and safety from Chaos.

[mskied]

If there is one lesson to be learned by being tortured by a Demon that declares itself All that is, a Demon that haunts you with every voice in existence but its own- for it is only a silent messenger of the Hell that awaits those that seek Truth- if there is but one lesson here, it is that might makes right. We are this creatures children, and we either do what we will, or honor one another. In the end, the only moral Truth is my own.